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Brian Kennedy - WWW.IHMGroup.Net

Overcoming the DNC list? Possible or impossible?

By: Brian Kennedy
Saturday, April 21, 2007 3:04 PM

I have had an epiphany.
While I am a subscriber to the DNC list, I strongly wish everyone else wasn't.
I know that makes me hypocrite so no comments about that.

My trouble is that it makes cold calling nearly impossible without spending hours and hours checking each number against the DNC list. Preparing the next days farming lists has now gone from 2 hours per day to almost 4 hours per day once I go through checking each telephone number. 

I know there has got to be some level of frustration out there about this. 

We used to rely on the Hayes list as our bible but it is becoming less and less accurate between upgrades.

I think the thing that really bugs me the most is that any number that is posted online for the world to see is off limits to us if it's DNC. Working canceled and expired are fine if can get the owners telephone number and it isn't listed on DNC.

I have been running around town to each home after hours and dropping information directly into the mailboxes of houses that are in the neighborhoods I target. That is about the only way I can think of to keep farming and not break the law and not go insane with DNC.

Live with it or work around it? Thoughts...........

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Comments

Mark Cohen
Member Since '03

Mark Cohen said:

I didn't know anyone still did cold calling except vacation timeshares and refinancing.  Oh, also ink salespeople from the other side of the world.  I haven't had a real estate agent call me since the DNC went into effect.  Does it work?

April 21, 2007 2:28 PM
Brian Kennedy
Member Since '07

Brian Kennedy said:

With limited results.

I actaully pay a telemarketer a couple of bucks an hour (on their off-time) to do the actual calling.

My cold calling efforts mainly revolve around renters and only for rentals that list out at $2000 per month or above.

In my mind, dual agency is worth the price at that ticket amount.

Whenever I get a new rental listing, I usually cold call about 400 numbers in the area to spread the word.

I can move rentals fairly quickly in April, May and June using this method.

The fastest turnover to date was 12 days between listing and leasing.

Cold calling to homeowners is a waste of time since they are not generally transatory in nature.

Am I the only one left doing this?

April 21, 2007 2:35 PM
Mark Cohen
Member Since '03

Mark Cohen said:

You might be.  I don't know that much about residential rentals.  I have done several commercial leases from the MLS and signs on windows.  Cold calling might be a good method for your type of business, so if it makes a profit, go with it.

April 21, 2007 3:45 PM
Todd Clark
Member Since '06

Todd Clark said:

I use a 1-800 service and once they call me they are now off the DNC list for the next 90 days. I've done things like contests, and actual advertising. It has worked wonders!

Here is a link to the 1-800 service I use

http://www.proquest-tech.com/postcard.asp?sc=21169

April 21, 2007 4:05 PM
Howard Arnoff
Member Since '03

Howard Arnoff said:

But don't you want to treat others as you would like to be treated? Do you want to be "bothered" by cold callers as you sit down to dinner and the phone rings with a bothersome telemarketer, how do you feel about dozens of spam email messages sitting in your mailbox as you wake up in the morning. Do potential clients want to be "bothered" any more than you do. I think not.

April 21, 2007 5:56 PM
Rafael Cortes
Member Since '07

Rafael Cortes said:

Nothing in the DNC rules can stop a real estate agent from cold calling if you understand the ruling. Go to the main page of the government site and click on the link "information for consumers".  Now click on the link "Will all telemarketing calls stop if I register?"  Then click on the link within the paragraph called telephone surveyors.  Here is what it tells consumers.

If the call is really for the sole purpose of conducting a survey, it is not covered.  Only telemarketing calls are covered, that is, call that solicit sales of goods or services.  Callers purpoting to take a survey but also offering to sell goods or services, must comply with the National Do Not Call Registry.

You can still make calls, you jusst need to make sure they are survey calls.  by understanding the rules, you will be able to continue prospecting for new business over the telephone without worrying about a fine.  All you have to do is make sure you ask survey questions.

I still farm and cold call without fear as I only do surveys with very good questions.

April 21, 2007 6:22 PM
Ken Nagel
Member Since '07

Ken Nagel said:

Rafael,

So what you are saying is that you are the reason the general public despises our profession. It is your tactics that try to skirt the rules, regulations, laws and ethics that gives us all a bad name.

April 21, 2007 6:59 PM
Julia Malik
Member Since '06

Julia Malik said:

wow Ken, that was rather rude

April 21, 2007 7:56 PM
Jackie Hawley
Member Since '05

Jackie Hawley said:

Rude but un-true? Do you like receiving solicitation calls masked as a survey?

April 21, 2007 8:13 PM
Chris and Janet Gaut
Member Since '06

Chris and Janet Gaut said:

Brian,

It's our understanding that you can not put an item in a mailbox without postage. We had an experience where the postmaster asked not to do that. Just  FYI.

Janet Gaut

April 21, 2007 8:25 PM
Ruben Salazar
Member Since '06

Ruben Salazar said:

Brian,

  I don't consider FSBOs eligible for the DNC list.  There's a reason why they put up a "for sale" sign in the first place, and that's to get the house sold. Only 80% of FSBOs end up listing their home on the MLS.  

  If we can't:  call, send a card, e-mail, knock on the door, or offer to shake a hand; how are supposed to sell their house? I cold call every Tuesday from 6 PM to 8 PM for prospects.   I let them know why I'm calling, and for the most part sellers appreciate it.  Why? Because I'm good at what I do. I watch Agents waste thousands on marketing and when the phone rings, they don't know how to sell.

Handling objections over the phone is a skill that you can't buy from realtor.com . There's no software that can turn a "no" to a "yes" over the phone. There's no cheap, meaningless designation that can distinguish you from your piers as a cold caller.  You see, what we do is an art.  Sellers that list with a "sales associate,"  want you to push their home to the highest bidder.  If you can sell your service over the phone, you can bet your sweet behind that people will list their most valuable asset with you.  

  When working with buyers, I pin point neighborhoods and call every owner that has the model that my buyer's looking for. I get great results because I'm giving the buyer the freedom to pursue ANY HOUSE he or she desires.    

April 21, 2007 9:50 PM
Brian Kennedy
Member Since '07

Brian Kennedy said:

Although I don't agree with how Ken said it, I have to agree with the general principal. I think I would be more upset a receiving a sales call masked as a survey only for the purposes of skirting the intention of the law.

Howard - as someone who has worked in technology for the past 17 years, comparing cold calling with Spamming doesn't make much sense.

Professional Spam gangs make entire careers out of making sure they break every communication law set to paper. Personally, I limit my calling activities to daytime hours and respect people's family time. If they are not home, I leave a message and move on. From the response I receive if they do call back, being mindful not to intrude on someone's family time makes all the difference.

If there are others out there that deliberately intrude on people's private time, they are the ones the law is addressing.

Reuben - I agree to a point. If you post your telephone number on a billboard, you really can't say "Don't call me." That is counterintuitive to the logic of the act. I am not sure how different states handle that situation, but in Illinois, FSBO's are a protected class applicable to the DNC rules.

Otherwise I agree completely with everything else you said about being able to sell your services completely and comprehensively while you have the sellers attention. In the worst case scenario, I think they would simply hang up or politely remind you that they have a registered number.

Since I posted this message, I have since decided to stop cold calling.  The amount of time spent checking the telephone numbers simply isn't worth the wasted time.

April 21, 2007 11:53 PM
Brian Kennedy
Member Since '07

Brian Kennedy said:

Chris & Janet - I suspect that may be the postmasters preference rather than the law.

My mailbox gets littered daily with restaurant flyers, political announcements, local merchant coupons and assorted bric-a-brac.

None of which have even the slightest sign of having been run through the post office.

Here is another wrinkle that has swayed my decision to stop cold calling. I suspect the trend is the same in your areas as mine. People are simply not using land line phones with the same vigor they used to.  Here in Chicago, a growing majority of people live and die by their cell phone as a replacement for a traditional land line. Before I started as a Realtor, I didn't have a land line in the house for years.

Are you experiencing the same trend? If so, what are you doing to confront this?

April 22, 2007 12:01 AM
Jay & Francy Thompson  REALTORS®
Member Since '05

Jay & Francy Thompson REALTORS® said:

Our postman said it was ILLEGAL to put flyers into a mail box. Just because others do it doesn't make it right...

As for disgusing a call as a survey as a a way to "get by" the rules.... well, I don't understand that mentality. Obviously the person does not want to be bothered by solicitation calls (and you ARE soliciting, whether you ask "survey questions" or not). How successful can you be by "cheating" so you can talk to someone that doesn't want to be talked to?

There is a Golden Rule out there, and it's a pretty good one. I despise getting sales calls, survey calls, etc. Why would I do that to someone else?

April 22, 2007 8:49 AM
Gregory Bain
Member Since '03

Gregory Bain said:

Brian you are a smart man. It is illegal to put anything in a mailbox. If you want a DNC scrub list there are alot of vendors who supply (for a cost of course - and that should be a cost paid by the broker, but that's another topic) a list. The broker can even down load a list that can be put in a MS Spreadsheet so you can sort it the way you need it. I had a broker once tell me to do cold calling without the DNC. I don't hang my license there anymore. As for the For Sale By Owner and expired list - that is a gray area - I mean if they allowed themselves to be put into the MLS then they have been a customer and can be called for three years - or am I reading that wrong. Rafael, don't call me. I might take the time to report you and I can guarntee you your broker will leave you hanging.

April 22, 2007 9:07 AM
Jackie Hawley
Member Since '05

Jackie Hawley said:

As I recall, when the DNC first came about, NAR advised we could call FSBO's and expireds who were on the list ONLY if we had a real buyer for that specific property. Not to solicit a listing. I don't know if they've changed their stance.

I don't believe the DNC list applies to mailers. Most of the heavy listers in my area mail daily to expireds and FSBO's. Some farm.

Brian- Our MLS supplies public records that show if a house is owner occupied. The tenants of non owner occupied houses would be a good group to call or mail to for your rentals.

April 22, 2007 11:56 AM
Lew Corcoran
Member Since '03

Lew Corcoran said:

Cold calling? In this day and age?  Would your time not be better served marketing and advertising on WIFM?  

If you advertise on WIFM, using your website and toll-free number with multiple extensions, you can get people to call YOU instead!  What is station WIFM?  Why, it' "What's In it For Me!"

I have found that by advertising on WIFM, I get people to call me - I now have a phone number or email address to work with.  I don't even consider cold calling any more.  And, if they call me, I'm free to call them back.  

You might want to consider using your website to advertise the available free reports.  Of course, you can also use a toll-free number (such as ProQuest or AdTrakker) to advertise free reports - such as How to Sell Your Home Fast and For Top Dollar, or How to Buy a Home with No Money Down.  They work. Try it and see!

April 22, 2007 12:24 PM
Gregory Bain
Member Since '03

Gregory Bain said:

Lew, how sly is that? An ad to a 1-800 number offering free "how to" information. I am starting to see spokes in the wheel. Thanks.

But, then again, that's not for me.

Good Luck!

April 22, 2007 2:02 PM
Ronda Kaufman
Member Since '06

Ronda Kaufman said:

It is Illegal to put anything into anyone's mailbox without postage. It's a FEDERAL Offense. You can go to jail for it. We had a class at our office over it recently. You can't put anything on the flag either. You can put something on the post though. Just because everyone is doing it doesn't mean it's right or legal.

Cold calling is something I don't do because I hate getting the calls from other people.

April 22, 2007 3:57 PM
Brian Kennedy
Member Since '07

Brian Kennedy said:

Here is an irony for you.

I asked our postman about mailbox inserts.

He told me that it is illegal but there is not way to effectively enforce it. (insert 20 minutes of dissertation about manpower blah, blah, blah)

I already use my 1-800 number on every piece of marketing I do so I think I have that covered.

On the idea of How-To's:

There is an bankruptcy attorney here named Peter Francis Geraci. He has had ads running on TV since I was in diapers that advertise the exact thing you are talking about. He calls it "InfoTapes". People needing guidance on bankruptcy are free to call his 1-800 number anytime and listen to pre-recorded information about bankruptcy.

My geek wheels are starting to churn again.....

April 22, 2007 7:52 PM

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