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Fico scores Fact or Fiction !

By: Mike Robins
Sunday, September 09, 2007 6:36 AM

Happy Sunday everyone,

I had a finance class on Friday with a Banker/Broker and thought I would relay a bit of information that I was not aware of.

First of all did you know that a Fico score over 720 does not get you any better rates on a mortgage ? 

The teacher of this class has been around for over 25 years in Real Estate and finance so I have to assume he knows what hes talking about, He told us that as far as a mortgage goes the very best rates are given at the benchmark 720 and although impressive anything over that will not get you any better rates, I found that interesting to me as an agent because I have always believed the higher the better. I have clients with 850s that I have told would get a better rate with those scores so now my wording will change to (If you are over 720 you will get the best rates ) I am sure some of you already know this information but I did not, So now everyone who reads this will.

Next we had a speaker that specializes in FHA loans who really kinda floored the class with his information, He informed us that the FHA does not look at FICO scores at all, And he prefers people with no credit at all for his loans over people with lower scores. He did 15 FHA loans last month alone and was quite up beet with his delivery while talking to us. He said that it is the Banks and lenders that put FICO scores in there process for loans that are insured by FHA, While I find this kinda strange it does not surprise me. He has done loans with 320 scores in the past 90 days. Also with the FHA loans buyers can be gifted money to close by anyone who wants to give it to them.

In our tight slower market the main speaker suggested we look more at offering to pay Buyers closing costs over a reduction in pricing, Especially when looking into FHA financing which I found was probably a wise thought since reducing the price is the last thing the seller wants to do even though it is probably the right thing to do. He put it like this to us If you drop the price of the home say 5 to 10 % in an effort to bring someone it will cost the sellers whatever amount that is, However if your seller offers to pay the buyers closing costs it would probably be around  3 to 5 %.

 Again some of you already know this stuff but I thought it was worth talking about today in hopes that it might shed a little light on the real market and ways of getting people back to the tables. Oh and there are grants available to help folks with the down payments as well. Farm loans for single parents and lower income folks are still strong but people are not applying for them according to our local rep. we need to let these folks know they still have hope when it comes to owning a Home. 

 

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Comments

Vanessa Stalets
Member Since '07

Vanessa Stalets said:

Excellent Mike! I did not know that about the RICO either. Wow!

Nor did I know that FHA does not look at scores, I have done quite a few FHA clients. I will keep all this in mind!

Thanks!

September 9, 2007 9:11 AM
Vanessa Stalets
Member Since '07

Vanessa Stalets said:

FICO..lol not enough coffee yet!

September 9, 2007 9:11 AM
Dan  Grammatica, e-PRO
Member Since '05

Dan Grammatica, e-PRO said:

720 may not get you a better rate, because many lenders quite the best rate to begin with. But if you don't have 720 + you may get a higher rate quote, so in effect you do get the best rate when you have 720 + .

But I don't understand, why if you cancel a credit card by your own choice, it should lower your FICO score (Suzie Orman says)

September 9, 2007 10:14 AM
Velda Miller
Member Since '03

Velda Miller said:

Dan, I don't understand that either about cancelling a credit card on your own.  I'd like someone to explain that to us.

September 9, 2007 10:28 AM
Mike  Robins
Member Since '06

Mike Robins said:

We did cover a bit of the credit card stuff and according to this guy its OK to cancel cards like sears and home depot because they can hurt your score even if they have a zero balance. But as for reg V/MC its better to pay them to zero and wait a couple months to cancel them ? This I really didn't understand because it is still available credit and according to him the revolving stuff are the big point hit cards.

This whole system of scoring (IMHO) needs to be revised, If you find out that you have a bad debt. that is over 2 years old and decide to pay it now it comes back to your current report as new ?

And if you haven't yet done so go to the opt out site for pre approved credit offers as they can lower your score with inquiries showing up as well.

I think the best thing we can do as agents is to stay on top of this stuff by going to these class's. The whole bleak market doom and gloom stuff in the news just may the opportunity some of these buyers need to get out and become Home owners.

September 9, 2007 10:43 AM
Candice A Donofrio
Member Since '07

Candice A Donofrio said:

FHA and farm home financing are the BEST. As long as the property will qualify, that is.

I think I've told the story of having to scrape chipping paint from a fascia to get a FHA loan closed. . .  LOL I am so all purpose! But whatever it takes . . .

And the reason closing the CCs is good is because that's credit you can no longer run up, so the debt ratio is tighter. I believe!

September 9, 2007 10:56 AM
Velda Miller
Member Since '03

Velda Miller said:

Dan said ..."But I don't understand, why if you cancel a credit card by your own choice, it should lower your FICO score (Suzie Orman says)"

I don't do credit cards myself anymore, but I'd like to know why closing out a credit card of your own free will would LOWER one's score instead of improving it.  To me it says that someone is taking the bull by the horns and taking charge of their life.  

I wonder if it is because TPTB assume that someone could be doing it as a ruse to qualify for a car or home only to get the cards back after getting the home or car.  

September 9, 2007 1:03 PM
Howard Arnoff
Member Since '03

Howard Arnoff said:

Mike, you said, "And if you haven't yet done so go to the opt out site for pre approved credit offers as they can lower your score with inquiries showing up as well."

While it is a good idea to keep your mailbox free of solicitations and your shredder idle, pre screen inquiries do not affect your score, your score is only affected when you apply for a card.

As to your score dropping when you cancel a credit card, the length of time you have a card is a positive so if you want to cancel a card, don't cancel the ones you have had the longest.

September 10, 2007 4:29 AM
Karen Weger
Member Since '07

Karen Weger said:

Good post. Yes, I used this FHA program many times when selling to first time home buyers in San Antonio. Negotiating to have the closing costs paid and sometimes even the down payment as a gift from the seller instead of a reduction in price. Excellent program. FHA may not be score driven, but they do look at recent credit history. Last I heard (which could have changed) they could not have any negative history in one year. They can use other sources as credit history if they don't have any on credit report, like insurance payments, utilities, rent, etc...

all must be in good standing.

If you want to know more about credit cards and how they effect your score you can go to one of the major reporting agencies web sites and they have tips there. I have raised my own score by about 100 points in 2 months by juggling credit card balances. Most report good score if they are paid down to less than 50% of available credit, preferably 35% or less. If you have a card that does not report credit limit, that would be one to get rid of. They say sometimes better to show a low balance than to cancel, because that can increase score. It is an interesting concept. I think the whole scoring thing should be changed. They had said they were all going to start reporting the same, but I have not yet seen that.

September 10, 2007 6:42 AM
Anson Simque
Member Since '06

Anson Simque said:

People, let's put things into perspective, the scoring system is confusing, but it's still easier to figure out than our PI ranking....lol

September 10, 2007 8:34 AM
Candice A Donofrio
Member Since '07

Candice A Donofrio said:

LOL Anson that's the truth! Mystery of the universe there. LOL

September 10, 2007 8:44 AM
Justin Stranere
Member Since '06

Justin Stranere said:

Hello All,

I am a Realtor and Licensed Loan Officer w/ our mtg division and can offer some accurate insight.

First of all regarding a 720 FICO score. That was always the top tier w/ most lenders.......having a score over 720 & getting the lender's best rate.  Over the past few months with all of the subprime info now spilling over and affecting the A side........policies and guidelines are tightening every day and we get changes/updates from our lenders all the time.  Take for instance JP Morgan Chase and this is for their home equity loan prices........anything over a 740 FICO was always the top tier w/ Chase up til recently..........that just got increased to 760 over the past week.  So anyone that has a 720 or lower score would pay a higher rate for a home equity loan as opposed to someone w/ the 740-760 score. And depending on loan size and exact scenario it could vary in rate as much as .75%. The higher scores also allows for reduced documentation..........(ex) a 720 or lower score would need a full tax return where a 740 + score would only need a recent W2 and paystub...........

Now more than ever our credit scores are becoming our most undervalued asset and we all should pay attention more closely.

Regarding the cancellation of a credit card there are several reasons that cancelling a card could lower your score.  Your FICO/credit score takes into consideration length of time in system and revolving credit......along w/ number of accts w/ balances.  So if you pay a card down to zero it shouldn't hurt your score having an active acct w/ a zero balance..... but sometimes it can lower your score if it affects your revolving limits being reduced or more importantly your length of time in system.  Lets say you have had a credit card since college.........Don't cancel it ......because that will take away 15+ years of being in the credit system...............The best advice we can give our clients is to go to:  www.myfico.com and look into the credit education section for accurate info/data.  That is also one of the only places one can go to get an Inquiry Free credit report w/ FICO score........they also have a score simulator tool that will allow you to similate a scenario and give you score results before actually doing it..........so if you want to cancel a card or pay something off.......do a score simulation first and see what the scoring system says.

Being that our Fico/credit scores now affect health/life/auto insurance, credit cards, tenancy w/ landlords, car loans, employment acceptance, along w/ mortgage rates..etc etc.........It should be a regular thing to ck your credit score and try to keep it as high as possible............There are may scores out there but your Fico score is the one that really matters.  As of today the Fair & Issac Co. is still the preferred company that all the big credit companies use to calculate the scoring models and algorithm's.........their consumer site www.myfico.com should be saved in your internet favorites and used regularly.......

Justin Stranere

RFW Realtors &

Walter Financial Inc.

September 10, 2007 12:55 PM
Shelly  Constantz
Member Since '07

Shelly Constantz said:

thanks Justin, good information!!

September 10, 2007 1:54 PM
Corie Seymour
Member Since '06

Corie Seymour said:

Great information and effort from everyone. Thanks, you have answered questions I didn't even know I had.

September 10, 2007 2:17 PM
Candice A Donofrio
Member Since '07

Candice A Donofrio said:

VERY COOL Justin . . .

September 10, 2007 3:14 PM
Howard Arnoff
Member Since '03

Howard Arnoff said:

Justin, thanks for the helpful info. Mike, this was a very timely post in today's tightening credit market, thanks.

September 10, 2007 5:13 PM
Mipeco Realty, Inc -  Michaela Krestenic, Broker-Owner
Member Since '03

Mipeco Realty, Inc - Michaela Krestenic, Broker-Owner said:

I've been keeping my first two credit cards I ever got simply because of the age of these two credit lines. I maybe use these cards once a year if at all but keep them active. As a foreigner and someone who didn't get a SSN until the age of 23 and first credit card about a year later, these first credit lines play a vital role on my credit report.

September 10, 2007 9:33 PM
Mike  Robins
Member Since '06

Mike Robins said:

Great info Justin thanks for the input.

Gotta love this place.

September 11, 2007 10:08 AM
Mary Tekesky
Member Since '05

Mary Tekesky said:

Justin,

     Checked out the fico site but didnt see the tool or where to check credit score. Saw free trial info and different items I could purchase if desired. Any suggestions?

MT

September 12, 2007 1:08 PM

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