People die in houses all the time of natural and unnatural causes. The older the house, the more likely someone died there.  I had one Buyer who was very clear that if someone died in a house, it would give her the creeps.  I told her she had better build it herself and she did!

It sounds as though you did the right thing in offering them representation and stressing that you work for the seller.  The Buyer may find that he actually likes the house.  If not, he knows that you represented your Seller as you should have and that you will do the same for him.

It sounds like you were very clear, James, about the service you would provide.

I think the sale of this house by you, or any other Realtor would have come to the same conclusion.  Once the new buyer found out the history of the home, I'd be 90% of time they would not be thrilled.

If I perhaps came across a situation like this, as the listing agent I would not take on any buyers at all, but rather refer them out. Dual Agency is a grey area. It is like a client being represented by the same attorney for both procecuting and defense. Some states don't allow it and others do. So, if your state allows dual agency, set a bench mark as a case by case basis. If you feel unconformtable representing a buyer in one of your listings as a dual agent, then tell the seller in your listing brief, and refer out all signage and website calls to another agent.

Hey, it sounds to me like you get to list this house for the second time and I am sure they want you to follow the letter of the law and show the same loyalty to them that you showed your original client. If they did not truly understand the difference in your duties to a client verses a customer before, I am sure they will appreciate and even insist you do the same for them now.

Silly buyer!  You're covered.  I think I would have convinced the seller to go ahead and disclose or allow you to disclose the information.  Somebody died in my house now I don't want it, silly, very silly.  You can send them my comment.   Good Luck with your new listing!

Realtor, Columbus Ga

I told them I would write the offer and talk to my broker.?

James Did you write the offer for the buyers? convert to a transaction agent/broker with the sellers consent.

Here is a link that may help with a death  in a home as far as disclosure

http://realtytimes.com/rtcpages/20031023_deadpeople.htm

Vance

James,

I think you did everything right! Wouldn't have changed a thing and I wouldn't feel bad.

In NJ, well maybe it is not NJ, but I, would have disclosed the fact once I was the seller told me. I would not advertise the fact of the suicide, but once the people liked the house and wanted to go to contract, I would have told them. More than half the time I show a home the buyers ask why the sellers are selling. Most of the time I answer with a vague response about family needs and requirements change all the time. I will even talk about the average time a person owns a home based on NAR statistics. But, this is a biggie! There are a lot of things that creep people out - and this is one of them.

James, I'm curious . . . does your old buyer/new seller want the suicide disclosed? I'm thinking he/she probably does.

This may be one of those situations where you felt bad at first but the next time you turn the house, it's all out in the open and you get paid again . . . this time, feeling great!

Real estate is like that. Disasters followed closely by miracles.

The house across the street from mine, a county sherriff and wife lived there, had lotsa problems. One early morning, cop cars everywhere. He had shot himself in the master bedroom. I thought, "Good luck selling that house" but I was wrong wrong wrong.

It sold lightning quick to a guy who owns the local computer store.  He's lived there for 3 years and I don't think he intends to move any time soon.  Nice house and he got a great deal.

That's the catch, Candice. The buyer got a great deal! It most likely sold below market value to someone who is not creeped out about it.

Just a few thoughts and questions:

John wrote: If I perhaps came across a situation like this, as the listing agent I would not take on any buyers at all, but rather refer them out. Dual Agency is a grey area.

John, my understanding is that the original poster did not act as a dual agent.  wouldn't dual agent mean he "represented" both clients, both are "clients"?  My understanding from the op's comments was that he clearly informed the buyer that he worked for and represented the seller. Seller is client.  And that if buyer wanted him to write the contract, buyer would just be a customer.  He owed him fairness and honesty, but not client full disclosure, confidentiality, etc.  I may be  wrong, and would like to know.

Gregory writes:  but once the people liked the house and wanted to go to contract, I would have told them.  

Greg, I don't believe you could tell them.  If the seller chooses not to disclose, don't we have the responsibility (without lying, deceiving, or doing anything unhonestly) to respect our CLIENTS wishes?  The agent had discussed the matter with the seller/client and seller/client made the decision NOT to disclose.  Therefore, had he disclosed against his client wishes to a customer, he would have been acting in a way that is harmful to his client.  Or am I missing something?

Now, that being said, would I have tried to counsel my seller to disclose?  Maybe, maybe not.  But I'm glad I'm thinking about it now in case the situation ever arises in the future.

To the Original Poster (op), I think you did a bang up job.  You should not feel bad.  You represented your client to the best of your ability.

Shelly

You did your due diligence for YOUR client.  This type of situation is a touchy one that I've come across a few times.  But in my case, I represented only the Buyers.  They had requested that I find out about any deaths that occurred in the home.  They refused to purchase anything where something had happened.  Needless to say they lost on a couple really good homes, but in the end I had to respect my clients wishes.

Don't feel bad...we can't please everyone all the time.  We can however follow our guidelines and protect our clients interests.

Shelly, The client told you. You now have knowledge of the fact. People come to real estate agents because they "know things". If I know the waterfront property has no water at low tide and the township has no plans to correct it - I'm telling. Just because the disclosure form does not ask the right question does not releive you or giving the right answer. But, that's just me. I have never used my EO or had my broker appear before the board.

Jody, did you ever solve that cat smell?

Ok I am in a similar situation except it's termites not suicide.

The seller wants to hide the fact that the house is infested.

I said no. I know they are there and I will / have to disclose it to a buyer.

Right? Wrong?

I am a seller’s agent only.  I don’t “do” dual agency. Buyers either have an agent or represent themselves.

Matt, at least in Arizona, you have to disclose material facts affecting the home to buyers.  Termites definitely fit the material facts category.  

Do the right thing Matt and you won't have that crappy feeling James is suffering. But, that's a good thing James. Some people I deal with never get that crappy feeling. Welcome to real estate.

Termites are a material defect and must be disclosed.  

I still think the suicide thing was not a material defect, and by disclosing you would have jeopardized the client/agent duties.  Because the client said not to.

Gregory, I'm not saying it isn't the "right" thing to do (to disclose) and I understand the "gut" feeling.    I definately feel that an agent should counsel their client and get them to agree to disclose, but if you accepted the listing knowing what the client wanted, then you have a duty to perform as requested.  If client wanted me to not disclose a material defect, I would refuse the listing.

Shelly

Matt-

In Michigan, you can't disclose on behalf of your client. You can insist he disclose or don't take the listing.

Here, in Oregon, if I am asked a question about one of my listings, and I have knowledge on the subject, I must answer truthfully.  

For example, were I asked if someone died in the home and I knew that to be true, I would need to say, "Yes" and disclose the details if further questions were presented.   I would certainly let me client (the Seller) know what I had been asked and how I responded.

Interesting how the rules vary from state to state.

How would Redfin handle it :)

I love the Arizona Buyer's Advisory:

http://realestatebhc.com/buy_advis.pdf

It tells buyers to, among many other things, call the police to see if the property was the scene of a crime, drive the neighborhood at night and talk to the neighbors.

Talking to the neighbors would have taken care of the suicide thing. That takes care of most everything, LOL.

In Texas, a death by natural causes does not need to be disclosed. Suicide is considered a natural cause (depression) it does not need to be disclosed.

Suicide does not stigmatize a property, natural death does not stigmatize a property, murder does.

I'm in Arizona too and we have dual agency disclosure forms the buyer and seller both have to sign and UNDERSTAND.  A wonderful instructor told a class I went to that a realtor has 3 hats.  One says Sellers Agent, one says Buyer's Agent, the other one says B/S.

Shelly, this might seem the extreme to you and some of the others on this thread, but I am under no obligation to help someone rob a bank. I have a responsibility to myself, my family, my community to do "the right thing". Sometimes I have fallen for a bad deal. The bells go off and I know something is wrong, but I (regretfully) have gone forward. That's when that crappy feeling, that seems to be bothering James, comes screaming out. I wasn't forced to participate in it. But, I know I wouldn't want that to be done to me. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. You choose which path you want to walk. As for me and my house.......

Ya see James; you can talk the bad feeling right out of yourself. I do that with exercise. I lie on the couch and say to myself, "I should get up and do some exercise." Well, I guess, I'll do it as soon as the next commercial comes on TV. And then, I say, "I'll start tomorrow." Before the night is out you will have talked yourself into believing you had actual done the guy a favor. Heck, if you didn't do it some other realtor would have done it. Sleep tight.

In Florida it is not a fact that has to be disclosed.

Matt regarding the Termites I am not sure what state you are in  but I would venture to guess it must be disclosed- It obviously materially affects the value of the property

Termites and suicide on premises are worlds apart!

One, as Gregory said, has the 'creep factor' which is not tangible but has relative, subjective value or detriment. Some may not care, some may love it even.

My buddy in LA sold a hilltop estate in Hollywood for 1.25M, days after the husband of the owner had shot himself in the master bedroom (yep, another one in the MB).

She was freaked out that now the house would never sell. I told her to see if she could get word out to Trent Reznor or Marilyn Manson's people (LOL, but I was being serious). Takes all kinds and there's a butt for every saddle. No, the rockers did not buy it. But someone did and it didn't take but a couple weeks.

Termite infestation is a physical defect in a property that devalues it, period. I doubt anyone will seek out a house that could crumble before their eyes.

Disclose, disclose.