We cannot, as Tranaction Brokers in Florida, work to the detriment of either party! I'd love for you to see the Agency Disclosure form the public has to sign before showing property...

That's TRANSACTION Brokers. Too much champagne...

I always do Transaction Broker and you know, I'm really comfortable with that.  There have been massive discussions on Internet Crusade RealTalk about agency relationships.  It always sounded like I WIN/YOU LOSE.  I'm from the old school of WIN/WIN and being a TB accomplishes that.  I've met with resistance, on occasion, where the buyer is a little uncomfortable with being represented (limited) by the listing agent/salesperson/Realtor®, but when I explain single agency to them, they usually see the benefits of working with a experienced, and I know this sounds corny, but caring Realtor®.  What the consumer RARELY realizes is that same fiduciary relationship means being liable for each others actions.  You'd better know who you're dealing with really well.  Just my 2¢

I have heard that line many times as well.  I usually advise my clients that some agents will claim they have another offer just to get a higher bid on the property.  So - I do tell my clients what the agent has said but also caution them that it may well be a ploy.  If it's a property they really want, I will encourage them to make the offer keeping in mind they may be competing with someone else.  

Here on PEI, the real estate agent population is small (as is the real population) so we all know one another to some extent.  You learn pretty quickly who uses that line and who is genuine.  There are sometimes I want to say to the agent "you used that line the last three times I brought you an offer...funny how the other offers never materialized." But you have to be careful not to start off the deal on the wrong foot, so you can't really say anything.  

It's annoying and shouldn't be done... but a lot of agents are annoying and do things they shouldn't do.  They lower the standards for all of us and it's a shame.  

All we can do is NOT be like them and be honest and above board.  You earn a lot of respect in the business for being that way.  And it's so easy to do!!!  

I have in one case put in the offer "This offer is only good upon the listing agent producing the competing offer within 24 hours of our offer being accepted."

Guess what, That agent was fired by their client within 2 days of our offer, based on my client revoking his offer based on the fact there was no other offer as we were told there was. The agent had lied to us to get us to make a higher offer and they didn't think they would run into someone who could out smart them at their own game.

That agent was pretty mad at me and even complained to my principle broker about what I had done. My principle broker laughed at them and told them that the offer could be written anyway me and my client saw fit to protect my clients and their financial needs.

I'm happy to say that agent is no longer in the business.

Todd Clark - broker

Kastings & Associates

(503)524-9494

Todd@IFoundYourNewHome.com

www.IFoundYourNewHome.com

I personally don't use those ploys. It seems any form of lying is unethical. However, I know it happens and there is probably very little to be done about it.

Although it would be lying, also, you may want to tell the listing agent who says he has another offer coming in that you now have to report this to the buyer who has said they really don't want to get into a bidding war, and that they have a strong second choice they may want to act on. Ha! I'll bet you could tell from the listing agent's reaction whether he was bluffing or not. Sort of like playing poker, innit?

I didn't see Todd's before I posted -- that is a good one!

M

Todd - OMG - I'm not quite sure how to respond to     "This offer is only good upon the listing agent producing the competing offer within 24 hours of our offer being accepted."    In our own office we do not discuss offers or signed contract prices.  How/Why on earth would you expect a competitor to produce such documention to you?????  Please explain - I think there a lesson to be learned here.  This is an ethical explosion and you're playing with your license.  Real estate is fun, but it's not a game.  If I've missed something, I'll gladly listen to you.

I just had a situation last week where we received multiple offers on one of our listings.  When I told one agent that another offer was also being written, she kind of asked "really?" like she wasn't sure if she should believe me.  We used to work together, she knows I'm honest - I just told her "really!".  Her buyers decided to test it and dropped their offer.  The property was in contract with the other buyer within 48 hours.

With some of the bank owned listings I have had in the past, they'll continue to reduce the price monthly until it gets to the point where it's a deal and at that point we'll get multiple offers.  I always hate having to tell other agents that I have multiples - I'm afraid they'll think it's a ploy.  The worst is when one of the buyers is my own buyer, and there's nothing I can do to help them.

I had a situation a couple of years ago where I wrote two offers on my listing.  The seller (bank) asked for highest & best and I couldn't give either buyer any info that would give one an unfair advantage over the other.  One set of buyers I liked a lot better and really wanted them to get the house - but they were about $500 lower than the other buyer.  I had just told myself that everything happens for a reason and there must be another house out there for them, when the buyer with the higher bid called and said he felt extremely confident that he would get it, and he LOWERED his bid.  That put my fav. buyers in front - they ended up getting the house.

The banks & REO companies have forms we fill out when there's a multiple offer situation, the buyers are required to sign to acknowledge that this situation exists.

Tracie

Oh, and I forgot to answer the original question - I think claiming multiple offers when it is not true is wrong.  I would never.

I had a REO company that attempted to do that.  We started out with multiples, one buyer dropped out because they didn't want to compete, they tried to get me to still tell the other buyer that they were in competition - I did not.

Tracie

Todd,

I loved that line.!

I think I will try that sometime- it is almost like an escalator clause conditioned on seeing see the other offer.

I have noticed that agents at a nationally known brokerage company tell me there is another offer coming in EVERY time I have a client interested in one of their listings.  I just expect to hear it from them.  LOL!

In any case, I will inform my buyers. If they are still interested, I tell them to submit their best "no regrets" offer but most times they will go with their second choice since there are many homes to choose from in Michigan.  I chuckle to myself when I still see the listing as active a couple of weeks later!

I am able to negotiate without lying. I don't agree with lying for any reason. I have ran into this alot with other agents and it really bothers me that we cannot just do our jobs and be the best at what we do without having to fabricate situations that do not exist.  It is no wonder we are categorized close to attorneys in public opinion. I recently had a seller I was trying to get her property listed. Another agent called her and told her he had a buyer ready to make an offer (just to get the listing). She told me he had a buyer and I told her that she could either list with me or him, whatever she wanted to do. She felt he was lying to her. She listed with me, I contacted him and told him the seller said he had a buyer with an offer and I encouraged him to bring it to me. He never did. Still hasn't. When people show you who/what they are believe them. Treat others the same way you would like to be treated....I don't like being lied to.

Good evening Gail,

        Mike is correct, this is exactly what it is. It is just like the clause in and conditioned escalator clause. I've only had to use it once, when I thought the other agent was lying. My client was an investor and was willing to walk away. I am there to protect my client and their best interest. A listing agent lying to get their client a higher price is an unethical practice in my opinion. I just did this to help save my client $5000 on a $150,000 property. My client walked away and thanked me for my professional opinion. He said with his past agents, he would have had to just bite the $5,000 an assume that the other offer was really there. Gail I agree this isn't a game, but you are correct the seller doesn't have to produce the other offer if they don't want to. But, my client doesn't have to make the offer either. My opinion is that the listing agent costs the seller the sale of the property and in the end so did the seller. He walked away from this other agent to, obviously seeing that the agents unethical behavior telling me that they had another offer cost him a sale.

That is big price to pay for someone else lying to you and to me it now means I have a lifetime investor as a client.

Todd

Todd,   RE: Requesting a copy of competing offers in your  buyers offer to purchase.....

Who did you serve by adding this demand in the offer?    The seller didn't sell the home and the buyer didn't buy a home that they could very well have been happy in and you didn't receive a paycheck.

Mary,

People in your area place up there with attorney's? Gee, here we are a little farther down the rung and placed just below used cars salesmen - er, uh, that wasn't politically correct used car salespeople? LOL

Funny, I have been around real estate my entire life as my father was an investor. We rarely dealt with realtors but on occassion we did. Although there were only two or three that I remember over the years. They all three seemed to very honest and open people. So, I never had a negative thought about realtors. I viewed them as honest and upstanding people with high morals and ethics.

Well, then I went and got myself a license. I went out to obtain business and I could not understand why people were so mean to me. One guy actually answered the door and I did nothing more than introduce myself and state what brokerage I was with as I extended my hand for a friendly handshake.

This man actually spit the food from his mouth on me, jumped out the door with both feet whilst grabbing me by my arm and screaming "Get the #$#$ off my property!".  I promptly removed myself from his grasp and stated there was no need to be getting physical and if he didn't want me there I had no problem leaving but to please do not touch me again.

Well, then I had myself a few dealings with other realtors. My jaw dropped at some of the things and actions I have seen others do in this business. It made me understand why people feel the way to do about us. It only takes on bad apple to spoil the whole bushel.

But to answer the question asked...if an agent tells me, in this market, that there is another offer I promptly remind them that I will advise my client of this "so-called" fact and advise them that there are 17,000+ homes on the market and that we really should consider either waiting for the other offer to either materialize or simply move on to locating another home.

This happened a week ago and the agent started back-peddling so fast you would have thought they seen a ghost. I advised my client of this fact and we located a different property for the client. Needless to say, the original property is still active with no contract. And to make things even better. The home that we have located for the buyer is $18,000 cheaper and the client says that they are very happy that we didn't move forward on the other home and this one is much better for their needs. Hmm, go figure.

Christal,

          I do see your point about who did I serve. According to my client I saved him $5,000 and I served him, he can now use that $5,000 toward another purchase. (Debt to income ration) He also bought another property 2 houses down from the other one within 3 days. (I got paid) And because he trusted my judgement he has bought 2 other properties through me. (I got paid again and again) I don't serve the seller and didn't pretend to. His Realtor is the one that tried to cheat my client by lying and in the end didn't serve his seller or the buyer.

Todd

Todd,

I absolutely need to tack one more comment regarding requesting proof of competing offers.

A wise Broker once told me, "The ONLY thing a Realtor has to "sell" in this business is his reputation.   In particular, he was referring to our reputation with other Realtors (and not just our clients).   Other Realtors, after all, are the primary source for buyers for our listings.  

If you develop a reputation as an "adversary" among other Realtors,  you may be biting off your own nose to spite your face even though you are doggedly protecting the best interests of your client.

I know Realtors who refuse to work with certain other Realtors based solely on their personality traits.  

The buyer and seller are the only parties to a contract, but their are 4 different sides to a transaction (buyer(s), seller(s), listing agent and buyers agent....each with their own personalities and temperments.  

The real art is successfully negotiating a transaction that benefits both the seller and buyer with the least amount of "feather-ruffling"...IMHO.

I have to say that I understand both sides. Christal and Todd's. But in the end I have to agree with Todd. Others have stated that they wouldn't want to work with another Realtor who would lie, even for the benefit of their seller. So, if there is a Realtor who needs to worry about their reputation among their peers; I believe it would be that listing agent.

Scott, ok attorneys, then used car salesmen, then us maybe. Not sure the exact lineup but we are with them. Sad. I had a listing that we had a buyer that was teetering on the edge of making an offer. She wanted the house, liked everything about it, just would not make an offer. She kept asking if anyone else was looking. At that point, I told her no, because no one else was lookingaat that point. I had told the seller we had an interested buyer but she just couldn't get off high-center, I told her what we need is another person looking to get her off high center.  The next day, a person who worked with the seller called me to look at the property. She looked around and then told me "tell the potential buyer that someone else is looking". I asked her if she was interested, no, she wasn't but wanted to help her friend and knew I would not lie, they had set this up. I kept my integrity. The potential buyer asked me if anyone else was looking again and I merely said, yes, just yesterday. That was enough to get an acceptable offer and we contracted on it. Okay, I know, a half truth is as good as a lie too.... I didn't say I was perfect....

It DOES matter. We should not "accept" it as something we cannot do anything about. I run a clean business with a clear conscience, and if an agent's unethical m.o. harms anyone, I will shine a light on it for all to see and decide.

Let's walk the talk. It's good for business and for our fellow beings.

I have to agree with Todd simply because of our duty to our client. When I'm in the middle of a deal, I fully expect the other agent (either listing or buyer) to represent their client. I don't take it personal.

I have never lied to another agent to get a higher price for a listing but have worked with agents that are unethical - I delt with them and in the end sent a thank you card - Business is Buisness!  We get over it and move on to our next deal.

Attorneys, used car salesmen/persons. Until states get serious in their licensing of real estate salespersons we can expect to be classified way down there.

Compare;

Any person desiring to obtain a certificate of registration to

 enable him or her to engage in the occupation of cosmetology shall

 make application through the division director to the board and

 shall present proof that he or she has obtained a high school

 diploma, a general educational development (GED) diploma, or a

 postsecondary education or college degree.  If, after review of the

 application, it is determined that the applicant is at least 17

 years of age; has met the minimum educational requirements; is of

 good moral character; has completed a 1,500 credit hour study course

 with at least nine months at a board approved school or has served

 as an apprentice in a beauty shop or beauty salon for a period of at

 least 3,000 credit hours;

Now what does your state require to be licensed in real estate?

Is it more than what is required to cut hair or file nails?

One persons lie is anothers honesty.  I always strive to be truthful in everything I say but I sometimes catch myself stretching the truth and feeling bad about it.  For instance, when asked "hows business?" do we say great even when it's not, or incredible, thinking that deceiving is better than lying.  If another agent asks about my production do I round up a little to impress them.  Do I tell a story exactly as it happenned or do I leave out the parts that make me look bad.  I know when I meet someone who is brutally honest even when they could easily not be, I like them for it because it is refreshing to see integrity.  No, I have never said I had an offer when I didn't and I feel like I'm a long way from doing something like that but I have fallen short of the integrity I want to have in the past.  

Not familiar with the term 'transaction broker', but in NC unless we have an exclusive buyer agency agreement with the prospective buyer, its assumed we are working for the seller. We must first disclose and explain what constitutes seller agency from buyer agency and most people want exclusive representation....but then there's whats known as dual agency. We can legally represent both parties with both party's consent. It a tough role to play and all we can do is sit on the fence and relay information, but its the only way to best serve both buyer and seller with the same agent. We can also practice designated agency. This allows the client the right to request another agent affiliated with teh firm and not privy to the transaction to be appointed to represent either the buyer or seller. Ethical issues always arise when thrown into this position. Although I love earning the full commission by double dipping, its certainly not worth jeopardizing my integrity and licensure.  

Lying about another offer hurts your future negotiations. If I tell another agent there's another offer, they know it's true and more likely to bring their buyer's best offer. I also don't say my buyer won't go higher in price unless they tell me they won't. I still have to negotiate with those agents in the future and it's a disservice to future clients to have the reputation of a lier.

Todd,

I like your idea of conditioning your offer on seeing the other offer. I don't understand why you buyer walked, though. Did he only want the property if someone else did? I would think that the existance of another offer would determine your client's offer amount.

Todd, I liked your conditional offer language.  I feel that it my responsibility to represent my client to the best of my ability.  To negotiate the best I can.  To treat all parties fairly. and I do not have to stoop to lying, cheating or stealing to do that.  

I don't understand why the other poster feels that you cannot negotiate strongly with another realtor without causing a problem and becoming a "black listed realtor".  

I am usually impressed when another realtor comes up with something like Todd did.  I believe strong negotiations can happen with respect and without getting upset, belittling the other realtor, telling lies, and getting "pushy".  Even when they use them with me.  I will chuckle to myself, say that is a good idea, and use their idea's for my own clients later!!

However, when I have a realtor try to push me around, get bossy or patronizing, then they become a black listed realtor.  

Shelly Constantz