YES! Check this out Miss Marypoo!

I went to an Ethics course in April and we did a long segment on PC - and the instructor teaches classes nationwide for NAR so this is NAR stuff, not state specific:

There is a precedent setting case in Arkansas:

Part 4:  Concepts of Procuring Cause in Arbitration

I. NAR’s Arbitration Guidelines

A. Found in the Code of Ethics and Arbitration Manual.

B. Guidance to Hearing Panels as to how to determine procuring cause in arbitration hearings.

C. Also referred to as “Suggested Factors for Consideration by a Hearing Panel in Arbitration.”

D. Guidelines focus on “procuring cause” as the basis for resolving most commission disputes between brokers.

II. Key Factors in a Procuring Cause Dispute

A. No predetermined rule of entitlement may be established by an association.

B. Hearing Panels should consider the entire course of events.

C. Matters such as the first showing of the property, the writing of the successful offer or the existence of an agency relationship with the buyer are not, in themselves, exclusive determiners of procuring cause/entitlement.

D. The key concepts of procuring cause are referenced in this definition from Black’s Law Dictionary, Fifth Edition:

The proximate cause; the cause originating a series of events which, without break in their continuity, result in the accomplishment of the prime object.

C. Or, as the Arkansas Supreme Court put it:

It’s not the squirrel that gathers the nuts, but the one who shakes the tree.         (who is entitled to be paid)

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So if a buyer contacts you thru YOUR website or YOUR yard sign, and you provide information and continue to communicate with that buyer, EVEN if he gets Uncle Ted the Agent to show and write contract on the house YOU may have PC.

Another thing I found out during the class is, buyer firing agent to get new agent to write contract may not impact PC.

Buyer can fire and hire all day long but only the true PC agent is entitled to be paid.

Tell buyers who get info from you and then tell you they already saw house with Uncle Ted last week that they should get Uncle Ted to do his job and provide info from then on . . .

If buyer says they're firing you to hire Uncle Ted, they may also need to know they will be PAYING him too . . .

Question:  I recently had a contract whereby I couldn't do a showing on Saturday but I told the buyer's agent that I had an open house on Sunday.  She sent the buyer but didn't come!  He walked in with the camera, didn't identify himself, took 1.5 hours of my time at the open house to ask questions and then on Monday I get a contract via fax from said agent.  100% financing deal. - and the contract asks for huge "x" percentage of the selling price for prepaids, buydowns, closings costs.  When she faxed the contract she accidentally sent over information about the previous contract.  On top of that, the buyer dropped off the earnest money and asked me to explain the contract better to me as his agent was new!  Then the buyer dropped off the original contract at my open house (while we were still in negotiations) and I had asked him if the agent knew he was there?  He said Yes.  Then it was strongly suggested by the attorneys, the agent that hey, getting money under the table is okay.  Now the phone in my head is ringing "Fraud"!!!  All this agent did was attend the inspection.  I also had to explain to the buyer about the disclosures, how they work, the responsibility of the seller, etc.  While this deal didn't go together because  one can't get money back with no money down and on top of it like big big money and nobody was blinking an eye!!  Me, I had my gavel in my hand ready to swing - I was so appauld at this whole thing!  Major company, no training, abusive agent who called me 12 times one day to tell me how terrible her client is, that he complained about her, and how she hung up on him .......

My seller killed the file with the counteroffer because of issues on that file.  

Aside from the attempted fraud - which never made it through the gate with me -- could I have not expected a referral fee for all my work?  She never entered that home - how in the blue blazes and with good conscience does one write a contract and doesn't even know the neighborhood, the house and then to come to agreement on price but not the terms ... the terms killed it.

Please share away.  

[could I have not expected a referral fee for all my work?  She never entered that home . . . (wrote) contract  . . .]

Barb, I would definitely have made a referral arrangement prior to taking the time and trouble to do this other agent's duties. However, one was not arranged with written acknowledgement by the brokers. So you probably shouldn't expect one. (Anyone disagree?)

That agent was probably violating her fiduciary duty to her customer by failing to exercise a reasonable standard of care, from what you've described.

She originally made the contact with you that her guy wanted to see the house, right? So she shook the proverbial tree. She procured that property for that buyer.

You probably should have refused to go over the contract with the buyer, instead referring him to his agent's broker.  You should not have had to do any of that work.

That agent had time to make 12 phone calls to you, she had time to service her client and she should have.

But that does not guarantee compensation.

We're helpers by nature. We want to be of service and do our part so  transactions are streamlined.

But agents are out there who abuse other agents' helpfulness.

Also, I'd say be careful before taking any action that would imply agency with one you're not repping.

That's your cover story when the other guy's client shows up and wants to whine: "Sorry but you are represented by 'Miss X' and she or her broker needs to advise you. Here, let me get her broker on the phone . . . Miss Broker, here is one of your clients who needs to ask some questions. . . I'll be out in the hall checking the air in my tires . . . "   LOL

Candice and Mary, I can't tell you how much I enjoy your sense of insight and humor.  Yeh, she shook the tree alright but that was it.   Mary, I think she got lost with the cow!

Mary I want to hear the story about the barnyard animals and the cow.  

I had a client that I showed property to for over a month.  We were out at least 3 days a week.  Talked almost everyday, emailed all new listings.  When they said jump, I would say how high.  The last home I showed them I knew they would love but it was just a little higher price then what they were holding me to.  After that showing, no call backs, no emails, no telling me to jump... About a month and a half later I checked their name under title and there it was... they bought that last property I showed them.  Called the listing agent and he told me that it was clear that the "loan broker" who wrote their offer had never seen the property.  I talked to my Broker and our Board, but since this "loan broker" was not a member of any Board the only way we could go after him for the commission was through a law suit.  So rather than money, I am looking for Karma to come back on both that buyer and their loan broker.

Jana

Jana, that wasn't a nice thing that happened to you and I hope that this licensing of Mortgage Brokers and Bankers allows us the opportunity to file complaints when such things happen.

When your check clears,bottom line :)

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Jana:

I can identify with your experience.  I shook teh tree, found the home, got the buyers pre-approved, researched covenants discussed purchase price etc. Then they disappeared. Come to find out they did buy the property at the price point we discussed . Like you I discovered after checking information... with our closing files...yes the worst thing for me was it happened with another agent in my office (at the time). And to make matters worse the same buyers tried to go behind that agents back and buy directly from the sellers. The seller then called the listing agent who in turn made sure the second agent from my office got her commission and when the whole thing was exposed did I receive any of the commission from my broker? Nah!