Is that all they said?  Did they actually indicate that they didn't like Mexicans and wouldn't want the home if it had been owned by Mexicans?

If they didn't indicate that, I would have taken it further and asked why they were asking?  There really could have been valid reasons for asking, like maybe they're Mexican and preferred a house that had a history.  Or, maybe they once knew the family and wanted to see if that was the house???

Of course, maybe they made it clear - and in that case, if someone were to offend me like that, I probably would do the same.

Todd, I applaud you for walking away from people like that.

I had a similar experience when I first started in this business. I was doing a buyer interview in my office when I asked the question "do you have any preferences as to the type of street the home is on, main road, secondary etc." The husband replied with 'no, as long as its not too dark.' I knew exactly what he was refering to but responded with 'oh, you don't need to worry about that, the entire area has street lights.' The wife then say's 'I don't think you understand what he means by dark' as she rubs the side of her face.

I then proceeded to gather my things, stand up and open the door telling them that I would not work with people like that and that they needed to leave the office and find another agent to work with.

Todd:

Good for you!!!.  I think all the crazies are comming out of the woodwork these days.  

"Would you have done the same or would you have even tried to educate them?"

Difficult to say without hearing the entire conversation, inflection of their voice, etc. I think it's quite probable we know what they meant. But it's also *possible* they had no ill meaning as Tracie mentioned.

Our first gut reaction is usually right. Usually, but not 100%. While it would have been difficult to get over the initial reaction, asking one more question could have confirmed or denied their intent. And if confirmed, then absolutely walk away -- there is little to no hope that you'd be able to "educate" someone with this mentality.

It may have been your local RE enforcement agency (in FL it's FREC) checking up on you.  

The more of an internet presence you have, the more likely you are to get phone calls prompting you to become involved (answer a question) in an illegal activity.

Here's the thing to remember:  If you "acknowledge" that you heard the "customer" say anything that would violate any law, you could be in trouble.  You have to COMPLETEY ignore the question as if you didn't hear it.  

Like you, I just hang up.  Just don't acknowledge that you heard anyone say anything.

Good for you Todd.  I had a situation last year that involved another Realtor though.  Cash Buyer calls, we chat.  She's looking for a summer getaway for her mother in a particlar complex near the water.  We make an appointment for the weekend and she suddenly feels the need to tell me she's black.  Turns out she had looked at one unit before.  The Agent was great on the phone but his demeanor changed completely when they met and based on his questions she got such a bad feeling from him that he did not want to sell to them.  She believed it was racially motivated. He was supposed to call her that week and never did.

We saw five units, submitted a full price offer that day, closed a month later.  She abolutely loves it and I still get calls when she's in town having a cook-out.  

His reaction may not have been motivated by race, but the Buyer sure felt like it was.  Never having been the victim of racism myself, I have to believe that she knows it when she sees it.

Todd,

You were right for not answering them and hanging up. I applaud you (loudly)..........................

Ok Todd you are 2-0 now. Keep it up. I'm thinking those slaps upside the head from your wife have actually helped you. Who would have thought.

Once again, I bow to a fellow Relibber for providing me with a scenario that I might one day face.

I'm afraid I might have been so stunned that I would have sounded more like Porky Pig at the end of one of his shows when he said something like this (I can't spell it...)

Bidggibidigggidabidiga...Th-th-that's all folks!

Todd -

You did the right thing.

I am still amazed at how people think that they can transpose their biases onto us when looking for a place to live.

I had a similar situation except the objection was because the seller was Muslim.

As jay stated it is hard to say without hearing the conversation, but you seem like a very smart guy so I think you made the right call. Bravo!!

I am pleased to see that most of you do not need to hear the whole conversation or the inflection of their voice to feel it! - believe me, that individual meant exactly what he said! -

As a Hispanic, it never fails to amaze me how some people think

we are not aware of the “new” found subtle ways of discrimination,

and most amazing, that people really believe questions like that can be justified by just saying, "It was not meant that way" "sorry if I offended you" bla.. bla.. bla.. - When a grown individual makes a racist remark, they do know what they are doing and what they are saying! Please you all, do not try to find excuses and do no validate this behavior by trying to "investigate".

The law said, it you feel it - then it is!  

Todd you are wonderful!

Todd,

I had a similar situation on a listing. It was a couple of neighbors who stopped me and told me they did not want a certain minority in the neighborhood.  I told them that I could not and would not descriminate against anyone. I also added the first offer the seller accepts gets the home.  They told me they understood but I would have a hard time getting another listing in that neighborhood.  I told them maybe not, I am sure not everyone feels as you do.  

I might have asked "Why?" just to be certain of what I thought I heard.

Hi All,

Had a similar situation to Cathys--had agent call, wants to show my listing. Told him owner was home, head on over. He tells me he and his client are African Americans. "OK". So he asks if my seller will still let him in. "Um, is your buyer a qualified buyer interested in that house?" yes. "Then of course we will let you in".

Todd, I know a real estate agent whose husband came out and started running his motorcycle up and down the street. Revving up the engine and otherwise trying to make the house and street undesirable to the prospective buyers. The listing agent (the idiot's wife) then began holding on to the key so the house couldn't be shown by anyone they wouldn't want as their neighbor. Why anyone would want them as their neighbor - I don't know.

wtg Todd!

I have experienced many occasions where I had to seek out "from where it came from" no matter how I was lead to feel about such comments.  

I have experienced many occasions where I had to seek out "from where it came from" no matter how I was lead to feel about such comments.  

Todd,

I do not believe that it is prudent or ethical to tell the buyer to go find another Realtor.  I believe the correct response is to read the EO clause verbatim and leave it at that. I am curious as to why you would ever suggest to a EO rule breaker that they contact another Realtor.

Phil, why don't you read my post and some others here and you will see that there is not a low enough place for some regardless of the oath.

Gregory,

Point taken.. But I still would not suggest no matter how low they go that they find another Realtor.  It might suggest to the idiot that there's a Realtor out there who would continue with the "process".

You're correct, Phil. But, I'm with Todd - just get away from me, please. They know what they are asking is illegal and that someone will take their business. And, you might be very well surprised to see which agent pulls up to your office asking for a key to show their customer a listing of yours.

Perhaps I can join the chorus and suggest that Phil make it his life work to educate these kind of prejudiced people. I would not care to spend any more time with them (or Phil).

I think you did the right thing.  I does not really matter the race of the previous owner.  Why ask about it.

It always amazes me how many idiots there are in the world.  Hopefully the buyer can look back at the conversation, realize his question was completely inappropriate, and the next Realtor is never the wiser as he has changed his ways.

On the other hand, 40 years ago the Realtor would have answered the question and sold him a house.  Thank god for progress!!!!

Sounds like you all discriminate against a racist even though they are entitled to buy a home like anyone else.

The only idiot realtor involved here is the one who passes up a chance to educate a person on the law and to earn themselves a buck or two. I sold many of homes to buyers who didn't want to live in an area with a minority. I read them the EO clause and tell them I'm willing to help them in the purchase of a house but I will not listen to any comments that are against the law nor will I find out that information for them.  They pick the houses they want to see, in the area they want be in.  I've never had a problem because I control the situation.  Some of them actually turn out to be great people but it is not my nature to judge them on their prejudices.  

I even had a minority buyer who referred me to their cousin.  My buyer told me that his cousin asked "Is she prejudice?" and my buyer answered "No, she's cool".  The only color I care about is the color of their money and if it is green, we are good to go.

Susie, you are hiding your identity, WHY?  Anonymous, WHY?

I don't deal with Bigots.  Period.  End of Conversation.

"Suzie" wrote: "The only color I care about is the color of their money and if it is green, we are good to go."

Thanks. That's exactly the kind of attitude that gives a lot of people the impression real estate agents are as trustworthy as car salesmen and lawyers.

I don't want a racists money. You can "educate a racist on the law" until you are blue in the face, you aren't going to change that sort of mind-set.

"Some of them actually turn out to be great people..."

Huh. Racists = great people. I think not.

Not having enough faith in your convictions to use your real name is quite telling, IMHO.

To Cathy, The answer is that I don't have a point2 ID.  Been a lurker for a couple of months & I'm amazed at the ego's that exist here.

To the Thompsons, you're over simplifying the comment. Point is if they want to buy a house, I will sell them one if they are qualified (green is the color of money). If they're dumb (not everyone is as intelligient as you guys on this blog) enough to ask that question in this day & age then they're dumb enough not to know the about the Fair Housing Act & my law-abiding habits. I guess I have more tolerance for ignorant people than you do. If they can live by MY rule then we can work together, if not then we don't.

Read several blogs on here, (one recently) about an agent who wants to tell an out of town buyer which area's are "bad". To do so would be an act of "steering", a form of discrimination.  Even telling them to check the crime rate & demographics is suspect. Yet many agents do it with the best of intentions.  Isn't their response a form of discrimination? Afterall they wouldn't live in that area themselves & most high crime areas have low-income people who are usually minorities (check those demographic links you all have on your websites with the areas that you know are "bad" & those school links too, contain the racial demographics of the students).  Isn't that a form of bigotry & racism? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black! (no pun intended)

Whether you realize it or not, everyone is prejudiced against something, whether they share this info with you or not is another. I just stick to selling physical structures known as houses.

"Whether you realize it or not, everyone is prejudiced against something, whether they share this info with you or not is another."

Speak for yourself.  Only ignorant people make comments like that!

"I guess I have more tolerance for ignorant people than you do."

I have a great deal of tolerance for ignorant people.

I have zero tolerance for racists.

Absolutely most people aren't aware of EHO laws. Heck, a lot of Realtors aren't aware of them!

But saying you won't live in a home where a Mexican family has lived is not ignorance. It's racism, plain and simple.

I've worked with a ton of clients I didn't particularly like. Lots I'd never become friends with (and more that I would, and have). But I won't work with people that I have a fundamental opposition to -- liars, criminals, cheaters and racists. Period. I don't care how much or how green their money is. Should the real estate market get to the point where those types of people are the only ones buying or selling, then I'll find another line of work.

So yeah, I am prejudiced. Againts liars, criminals, cheats and racists.

I went on to Relib and heard angels singing in the background, I came to this blog and heard the Hallelujah Chorus! YOU the man Jay.

I don't know. I don't think I have ever seen Susie and Phil together. Kind of like Michael and Janet Jackson. Not that there is anything to it. Just kind of makes you wonder.

Susie,

Which blogger said they wanted to tell the buyers which areas are "bad"?

Methinks "bad" is your description.

If I recall that particular blog post, I think the issue was giving buyers objective, lawful information about areas so the buyer can make an informed decision.

It is value-judgement words like "bad" that need to be avoided, but I don't think anyone here said that.

You seem to be unnecessarily combative -- you even said that if a buyer doesn't play by your rules then you won't work for them. Your discrimination is against those who don't play according to your rules. Your rules may be different than others but the principle is the same.

At least Phil R. puts his real name with his comments.  And we know where to the tell the mob to convene.

We all know Relib is public and that Guests can comment.  However, Guests should act that way.  It is generally a good idea to be considerate to your Host.  Calling him an "idiot" for maintaining his own personal standards is usually bad form.

Cathy, I just couldn't help myself. You are correct about Phil R. making his statements, his statements. I was just twisting his tail a bit. It's a slow day and no one to torment. John is silent, Todd has angle wings, Gary won't play, and Mike has me in his cone of silence. What's a guy to do?

Susie, Your way or the highway seems to be the gist of your comments. How successful have you been with that philosophy? You seem to be aware of the laws but want to avoid them if a dollar is involved. If a client told you that they wanted and all white community are you saying you would comply with their wish and show them only listings that fit that requirement? Or do you believe that you have the power of persuasion to change them and complete the sale? I am confused as to your position. The strange thing is that you seem intelligent but your remarks are some what unintelligent when you look at the meaning.

No, Gregory, you aren't under the cone of silence. You are my spiritual advisor.

Your Humble Servant,

M

Don't worry Gregory, they'll be back in the sandbox soon enough.

To Mike, Here is the blog I was referring to: https://www.reliberation.com/blogs/joerealestatefw/archive/2007/06/12/what-do-you-think-about-that-neighborhood.aspx  There is a link there also to another blog that was written awhile back.

Pay particular attention to the words that are used in the first paragraph.  I don't know where you come from but "in the 'hood" would be the stereotypical ghetto where I come from. I used the word "bad" in reference to the first comment posted.  The corporate attorney for a broker I worked for MANDATED that we do not give out crime statistics & demographics OR tell a buyer where to find them since the information is readily available on the internet & can be construed as steering if coming from an agent.  How many buyers do you know that want to live in a high crime area??????? Can you say STEERING?

To Mike & Gary regarding playing by my rules:  My ONLY rule is that I live by the Fair Housing Act & do not discriminate against anyone - protected class or not.  I would have handled the situation as I stated above in the 1st post: "I read them the EO clause and tell them I'm willing to help them in the purchase of a house but I will not listen to any comments that are against the law nor will I find out that information for them.  They pick the houses they want to see, in the area they want be in." & in my second post: "If they can live by MY rule then we can work together, if not then we don't."  

I don't understand why you are having difficulty with that concept.  I don't need to know (and neither do you) why they want to live in a particular area, it is none of my concern (or yours). It's the same with their financial situation, I don't need to know the details (that is confidential information between them & their lender) I just need to know that they are qualified for a loan. If someone wants to buy a house, my job is to help them in the process.  

To Gary, does that answer your question?

It's okay to show them where to look up crime statistics. I will give objective information to buyers so that they can make an informed decision. The over-cautiousness of the corporate attorney doesn't trump my practical experience representing buyers. As someone representing a buyer, I have the obligation to give them good information. Now, if a buyer says "I don't want to live in a crime-ridden neighborhood" and I agree with her saying "Yes, this neighborhood is dangerous and filled with crack-addicts and prostitutes and pimps and gangs" then I crossed the line into steering.

If I say all that BEFORE she says anything about crime, then I am steering. But, if I give her access to statistical information and let her make an informed decision, I am NOT steering.

As long as I don't make value-judgements, and objectively give them information, I am okay. I am not impressed with the corporate attorney's MANDATE.

I will gladly defend objectively informing clients in court anyday.

As long as the language is objective and value-judgement-free, and as long as I am not actually steering, there is not a problem.

And, I am not steering. If a person wants to move to an area after gathering information, then I will gladly help them buy. However, in certain cases, afer informing a person of pertinent facts, when a buyer has chosen to buy in spite of the facts, I have written up something for them to sign stating they have been informed of the pertinent facts.

"How many buyers do you know that want to live in a high crime area???????"

Precisely! Do you?

Well, maybe criminals would want to. But wouldn't you as a buyer want to know where to find the statistics before you bought into an area where murders are triple the average rate?

It is all in how it is handled and conveyed to the buyer. An agent who suggest www.blahblah.com to get information on a neighborhood is not steering, just doing a good job of helping a buyer make an informed decision.

Also, telling a client to reseach a particular neighborhood within a larger area that is included in the statistics, but is actually a safe neighborhood, is helping towards interpreting misleading statistics.

In Savannah, Area 1, "downtown", the overall statistics can look bad, but living in a townhome on Jones Street is relatively crime-free.

We, of course, have to be honest and careful in how this is conveyed, but if you are skilled, honest and your motives are right, there is an intelligent way to do it.

Susie

You can get a free account, heres the link

http://agent.point2.com/registration/ThemeSelection.aspx?Classification=Agent

To Todd, Thank you for understanding my view, I understand yours as well. I just wouldn't have hung up without a word (Kinda reminds me of that cell phone commerical - dead silence & the other end doesn't know what happened.)  

To Todd & Mike, regarding the crime question:  No, I don't ignore I tell them to contact the police.  Here's why. There is a small town in my area, lovely homes & good school system. However, the crime stats indicate a HUGE number of robberies in relation to the number of residents. Most people would probably shy away from buying there based on that statistic alone.   What the statistic doesn't tell you is that this small town has a mall where 90% of the robberies occur (shoplifting!).  Statistics are anything you want them to be.  The police can answer questions, numbers on a website can't.

To Bob, Thank you for the link but I'm not interested.  

To All, boy I am shocked by the current blog that is trying to find out my identity.  My name is Susie & I am not a middle-aged man.  My apologies to Phil R. for the persecution he is receiving because of me by some members of the RElib "mob".  I learned along time ago never to speak ill of another Realtor. I can't believe that such comments are displayed on a public forum.  Shame on you!

I wonder if the person calling was one of those plants they send out or call to see how a Realtor would react.

Personally, I probably would have llaughed, told them it's not a required question on the seller's disclosure and if they pressed it would have then recited to them the law regarding EO and let them either hang up or come on in and show me their pre-qual.   It's none of my business who they like or dislike and it's none of my business who the 'neighbors would like to have in their neighborhood'.    

Todd handled it differently than I would have.  He got offended, I would have cracked up at the question..it's a ridiculous question, imo, that does not deserve an serious reply other than reciting the EO.  

I don't know who Susie is and I don't care either..her points are, again, IMO, valid.   I'm not looking to sell to 'nice' people, I'm looking to sell homes to people that can close.  Period.

Only read half this blog but I get the point.... First of all, you are not required by any licensing laws to answer EVERY question that you get peppered with.  In this case, simply return their question with another question.

Is that important to you?

Why do you ask?

That answer will probably reveal their true character.  From there it is up to you to decide if you want to represent them or not.